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Oct 21

Written by: Andy Thornton
Wednesday, October 21, 2009 2:07 PM

Andy Thornton’s Proposed Code of Points

 
I’ve had it.
 
I’ve given this code of points three years, and something’s still not right. We’ve complained long enough. We’ve made it abundantly clear that we miss the artistry, we miss the originality, and we miss the 10. We’ve watched from the sidelines as the FIG has managed to reduce the coolest sport in the world to some mathematical game that rewards numbers on a piece of paper more than all the things that we fell in love with when we first became true gymnastics fans. They’ve turned a subjective sport into an objective one, and in the process removed the beauty, art, and style upon which this sport is based. Well today, I’m changing it back.
 
I’ve devised my own code of points that I feel represents the direction we need to be moving back towards in this sport. It’s simple and easy to understand. It rewards all of the aspects of the sport that we admire, respect, and yearn for. It makes sense. Even better, it might be possible to get a 10.
 
The rules apply to both men and women, and they work like this:
 
There are two panels for all events:
  1. An objective panel (O-panel)
  2. A subjective panel (S-panel)
 
For all events except for vault:
 
The O-panel consists of three scores:
  1. Value Parts                               (5 points)
  2. Element Groups                        (5 points)
  3. Difficulty                                   (10 points)
 
The S-panel consists of four scores:
      1. Execution                                  (10 points)
      2. Artistry/Aesthetic value (10 points)
      3. Originality                                  (5 points)
      4. Amplitude/Virtuosity                  (5 points)
 
Here’s a look at what each component entails:
 
O-panel
 
Value Parts (5 points): Ten skills are required, worth 0.5 each. Any value counts; as long as you have ten elements, you get the full 5 points. Nine elements equals 4.5 points, eight elements equals 4 points, etc.
 
Element Groups (5 points): Five element groups are required, worth 1 point each. Dismounts must be of a C-value (not a D as is currently required). A B-dismount counts as 0.5 points for that element group, and an A-dismount or no dismount counts as zero points for that element group. Any value counts for the other four element groups.
 
Difficulty (10 points): D’s count as 1 point, E’s count as 2 points, F’s count as 3 points, and G’s count as four points. Connection points can be awarded on several events (back-to-back release skills, tumbling connections, etc.). Ten points is the maximum. A routine that has no D or higher level skills would receive zero points in this category.
 
 
S-panel
 
Execution (10 points): In contrast to the way routines are judged now, execution scores would be given an overall score out of 10, in increments of 0.5. In other words, the judge actually sits back and watches the routine and gives it a general execution rating out of 10 - based on overall form, landings, and other deductions. No writing is necessary unless the judge wants to add some general notes at the end of the routine. A 10 would be given if absolutely no visible errors were seen, including on the dismount. Falls are an automatic 2 point deduction. For example, if the gymnast falls, the judge should evaluate the rest of the routine as he/she normally would and then deduct 2 points for the fall. So if one fall occurs, the maximum execution score is an 8. If two falls occur, the maximum is a 6, etc.
 
Artistry (10 points): The routine will be given a subjective rating out of 10 (with increments of 0.5) based on the artistic value and how beautiful the routine is to watch.  On some events, like floor and beam, this will refer to choreography and presentation. On the other events, artistry will be based on things like body alignment, positions, and overall flow of the routine. General presentation is always included in this category.
 
Originality (5 points): The routine will be given a subjective rating out of 5 based on how original the routine is (again, increments of 0.5). Unique skills, unique combinations, and unique choreography will result in a higher score here. If there is no originality at all, a zero can be awarded.
 
Amplitude/Virtuosity (5 points): This is the category that will reward high-flying release moves, huge tumbling passes and vaults, exceptional elevation on pommel horse, and exceptional height and extension on leaps on beam/floor. This is where the big daring gymnastics outscores the safe and conservative gymnastics. Again, increments of 0.5 with a maximum of 5 points. If the routine demonstrates very minimal amplitude with nothing that qualifies as “virtuous,” a zero can be awarded.
 
For Vault:
 
The O-panel consists of just one score:
  1. Difficulty                       (10 points)
 
The S-panel consists of two scores:
  1. Execution                     (10 points)
  2. Amplitude/Virtuosity     (5 points)
 
Every vault will have a difficulty rating up to 10 (0.5 increments, can do smaller increments if necessary), while the execution and amplitude/virtuosity categories work the same as on the other events. 
 
As you can see, for all events except for vault, the maximum O-score is 20, and the maximum S-score is 30, so the total score is based out of 50 points. The total is then divided by 5 to get the final score out of a 10. For example, a perfect 50 is divided by 5 to give a score of 10.0 (I think some gymnasts would be capable of it). A 48 out of 50 would be a 9.6, a 43.5 out of 50 would be an 8.7, etc. Of course, we should still have multiple judges and averages should still be taken. I think 2 judges for the O-panel, and 4 judges for the S-panel would be reasonable, with the highs and lows dropped in each category for the subjective scores. Judges would be completely BLIND to the subjective scores of the other judges. 
 
For vault, the result (out of 25 points) will be divided by 2.5 to get a score out of 10. Notice that the final score can actually be higher than the difficulty value! For example, if the difficulty value of the vault is 8.0 but you give a 10 in execution and a 5 in amplitude, the final score is a 9.2! The range of difficulty values must be wide (from 1 to 10) to allow for appropriate final scores.
 
This system brings back what virtually everyone around the world has been missing so dearly for many years now – the subjective nature of the sport! And giving an “overall” execution score may seem like a novel and crazy idea, but this is what they’ve done in the sport of diving for years. It would allow the judges to stop burying their heads into their pen and paper and actually sit back and do what the rest of us fans are doing at home – watch the routine! Sometimes when we become so focused on deducting for minute details, we miss the opportunity to enjoy and appreciate the routine for what it really is. My code of points is designed to allow for that.
 
I also think this type of code would pull the audience back into gymnastics. The current system is so complicated, so confusing, and so unpredictable (particularly on the women’s side right now) that the fans are actually pushed away – almost ostracized – from the competition. A system like this would actually allow the audience to “participate in the judging”, much like the way we subjectively judge beauty pageants or contests like American Idol from our living rooms at home. Making the audience feel capable of evaluating the routines is essential to making them feel a part of the event. They would develop their own opinions and consequently more of an interest in the gymnastics.
 
So what do you think?
 
Next…we’ll try judging some routines with my proposed Code of Points!

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11 comments so far...

Re: Andy's Proposed Code of Points!

I like most of it. The only thing that I would change is the fact that execution is not judged on a skill by skill basis. I think this will be more important in the higher levels of gymnastics as the gymnasts are harder and harder to seperate.
Also, I'm not sure that much of the gymnastics community would go for the numerical system of this code. The Units are jus too different from what we are used to. However, they are just numbers. Numbers can be fudged and played with.
On the other hand, I absolutely love the fact that artistry, originality, and aesthetics play a bigger role. I think this is where Uchimura would have really shined due to his beautiful lines and fluid gymnastics.
While I think that the execution and numerical systems need to be tweaked a bit, this code is leaps and bounds over the joke of a code we have now. I want to see a sport of artistry, originality, and aesthetic beauty. Otherwise, I would just watch football.

By Will Eastman on   Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:43 PM

Re: Andy's Proposed Code of Points!

There is more to a sport then artistry. The sport has fallen so far down that Nastia Liukin is the gymnast called artistic. Sorry but she is better then most of what is competing now (I think Ana Pavlova is a lot more artistic then Nastia could dream of being) but she hardly lives up to the best of the 80's or 90's

By Andi on   Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 PM

Re: Andy's Proposed Code of Points!

**Edited by Forum Moderator** Do you not understand that your scoring complicates the sport and that people will be deterred away because they don't understand it? NCAA approved a new four team layout from team finals with the hopes that people will be able to follow it more easily. They want to simpifly the sport in order build the fan support outside of the gymnastics world. The Perfect 10 is achievable still in the Execution score. Nastia Liukin came very close during the 2008 Pacific Alliance Meet with her 9.8 execution score on beam. That is what people understand. Having seven different sub-categories will confuse everyone.

By anonymous on   Friday, October 30, 2009 12:48 PM

Re: Andy's Proposed Code of Points!

On paper I like it, specially the judges sitting and just beholding the routine, but I'm afraid it's too complicated, Andy. Nobody will understand it and journalist can't explain it because there are too many concepts.

My proposal:

6 points for execution (Deductions 0.05, 0.1 or 0,2. A fall would still be 1 point)
3 points for difficulty (SV elements from A 0.05, B 0.1, C 0.15, D 0.2, E 0.25, F 0.3, G 0.35. No grup elements value)
1 point for originality and outstanding artstry

The ten is back!

By mr solis on   Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:27 AM

Re: Andy's Proposed Code of Points!

Not too complicated to understand, but far too complex. You think they're judging delays now! With the number of facets of your code get ready for even more. That'll detract even more viewers, especially those not to familiar with the sport.

By anonymous on   Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:03 AM

Re: Andy's Proposed Code of Points!

I like your proposition.

Why don'T we present a petition to FIG saying that they need to put back artistry into the sport? I think we should get enough fans around the world that would sign it so it would send a clear message to them?

By giRafe on   Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:14 PM

Head Coach & Technical Director

Although I really hate the new system I do not see how this is much better. I have been coaching for over 30 years and have been fortunate enough to have had athletes in Olympic event finals and I have to tell you, as a coach from a non-gymnastics power country, I am not as eager as you to see that much subjectivity back in judging. Your system is still very complicated and is in my opinion too subjective. Much of the athletes scores will be left up to judge's interpretation of what is artistic, what is original and what is amplitude, in other words what or who is the flavour of the day.

There is also little or NO accountability in in execution judging if they just sit and watch the routine. I do not want just there general impression I want to know where and why they deducted.

I am old school and like the old system, with compulsories (I know just a dream) which to me is what really set the gymnasts apart. The new system, in many cases, especially event finals requires almost freakish qualities to perform and survive the amount of difficulty required to do well. There have been so many injuries to top athletes especially on floor in the last two years and with the new emphasis on "stuck" landings I would expect many more.

In my opinion there was no need to make major changes the code after gymnasts stopped achieving 10's. I think the code was difficult enough at that point since NO gymnast were able achieve a perfect score.

Another beef I have with the code (not yours, FIG's) is when they started to eleiminate skills that not only do younger developing gymnasts still compete but need to learn in order to establish good basics. Our rule book (the code) should reflect all levels of the sport not just the elite. My younger gymnasts look at the new code and sometimes question why they are wasting there time on skills that are no longer in the code.

I can certainly appreciate your efforts though and where you are coming from thought.

Just my two cents for what it is worth.

By Old School on   Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:39 PM

Re: Andy's Proposed Code of Points!

Thanks for your comments, Old School...very thoughtful and obviously based on a lot of experience. I agree with much of what you said, and when I first devised this, the main objection I anticipated from most was the amount of subjectivity involved. However, keep in mind that the amount of subjectivity involved in our current code is also substantial, given the length of the routines and the wide range of possible deductions on each and every skill. I don't see our current system separating the gymnasts properly at all, and it has become so mathemetical that an appreciation for the subjective is essentially completely lost. Like you, I would love to see the return of compulsories and felt it not only gave another dimension to the sport, but it encouraged basics and perhaps prevented the sport from appearing like a circus because less time was devoted to solely working the difficult skills. It's interesting to me that a significant increase in frequency of torn achilles tendons as directly coincided with the removal of compulsories - even with softer and springier floors than ever before. My hypothesis is that without a significant amount of time being devoted to compulsories, the gymnasts are spending more and more time working difficult backward tumbling passes in practice.

I know it sounds crazy, but you may be suprised how accurate such a scoring system as this can actually be. The reason I say this is because I've been practicing using it on many routines over the last few days, and I've been pleasantly surprised at how easy and accurate it seems to be so far. Of course that's based on my perspective, and we tend to agree with our own opinions! I'll be posting some stuff today on it. Also remember that highs and lows would be dropped in each category, so attempts at cheating would be limited.

Thanks again for your comments.

By Andy T on   Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:05 PM

Re: Andy's Proposed Code of Points!

I appreciate your efforts in developing a new alternative to the current CoP, but I have to say I'm still not quite convinced. I don't like the current code, but I can see where it works and I commend FIG for that. I do not advocate an entirely "objective" CoP, but as a Brazilian I can't see how a subjective CoP would benefit this sport in entirety. Historically, when subjectivity mattered the most, the results were biased and highly debatable.

I would actually like a system similar to the one proposed by mr solis. This system would consist of an A panel for execution, with scores up to 6.0 points and a B panel for difficulty, with scores up to 3.5 points. The remaining 0.5 would be judged by a C panel, consisting of two judges, concerning artistry and originality in the routine.

Of course element group requirements would not give the 2.5 bonus in difficulty they give now. If a gymnast fails to perform a mandatory element in his/her routine, he/she would be penalyzed in 0.5 for each missed requirement. Also, the 3.5 cap in difficulty would provide an important and necessary limit for gymasts.

The basis for judging would remain mostly the same as the current CoP. Let's take Beth Tweddles floor routine from the EF in the Worlds 2009. Her difficulty is 6.1.. subtracting the 2.5 bonus we would have a 3.6 value. The cap is 3.5, so her difficulty score would have to be lowered to 3.5. She was deducted 1.45 in execution, so subtracting 1.45 from 6.0 we would have a final score of 4.55 for execution. Artistry would be a subjective score, but I think her coreography was lacking and the routine was not very exciting, so I would give her a 0.2 out of 0.5 in artistry.

4.55 + 3.5 + 0.2 = 8.250 would be her final score.

Now for Anna Myzdrikova's score. She would have a 3.3 difficulty value, 4.375 in execution and I'd give her a perfect 0.5 for artistry. Her final score would be 8.175. This score would be much closer to Tweddle's and that, in my opinion, would be fair. Myzdrikova's routine was beautiful, artistic and should be rewarded for that, while Tweddles lack of ability in dancing should be taken into consideration. Tweddle would still be the rightful champion, but Myzdrikova would have a better chance in winning a medal.

Of course this system should be revamped for judging vaults, but that's just my two cents. I guess this system would benefit daring gymnasts setting a cap for difficulty, but would also put extra attention in execution and still manage to reward artistic gymnasts. Too bad FIG is probably not paying attention to the very important discussion Andy has started here because if they reflected on our thoughts they could improve a lot our beloved sport.

By Thiago Simões on   Friday, October 30, 2009 11:52 AM

Re: Andy's Proposed Code of Points!

Oops, sorry. Myzdrikova's difficulty score would be 3.4 and she would have had a final score of 8.275, what would make her the world champion. That could be a tough call and people could debate over that, but nevertheless artistry would make a huge difference and that is what Andy was talking about right from the start, so I guess the debate would be a rightful one.

By Thiago Simões on   Friday, October 30, 2009 12:00 PM

Re: Andy's Proposed Code of Points!

well i do gymnastics and my wrist hurt i been asking my mom fro tiger paws but she said she dosnt know i need them but i do i do gymnastics and im level7

By olivia on   Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:12 PM

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